The short answer to my feelings on this is: I'm okay with Punisher and Wolverine doing the things they do as long as there still are characters like Batman who refuse to kill. We need the black, the white and also the gray to all exist to maintain balance. If all the heroes just start killing, I think the system breaks down and comics just get silly. And frankly I'm kind of scared of that happening any more.

Yeah, those that kill are still heroes. While Batman represents a great ideal, after the dozenth time Joker escaped prison and killed hundreds the society would be better off just getting him killed. At that point it really would be a matter of getting the hero society deserves (one who acts as judge, jury, and executioner) than what it wants (something embodying ethics and ideals of their purest nature.)

This pretty much sums up how I feel.

Have you ever read Kingdom Come? =)

Sure I've read Kingdom Come. Have you read Wanted?

Batman is one of my favorites. However, every time we get to one of those "There has to be another way" stories where The Joker has blown up a school bus filled with children after sodomizing Commissioner Gordon only to have Batman ponder what his parents would think of him for killing him in the heat of battle.

I think the portrayal of Batman in "Batman Begins" was perfect. As the train is about derail crash killing both Batman and Ra's, Batman justifies his actions by telling Ra's that "Just because he won't kill him, doesn't mean he has to save him". Yes, perhaps a cheap way out to some and a gray area of morality for others, but I thought it was perfect.

That's a failure of the system, not Batman. And there is no way the judge, jury and executioner is not going to eventually get out of hand. THat's why we have a legal system rather than shoot-outs at noon. Vigilantes aren't heroes, as they will eventually turn into exactly what they are fighting, especially the super powered ones. It's far too easy for someone with superhuman strength to kill, which is why super heroes need to be kept to a higher standard.

"Doing what needs to be done" sounds great on a bumper sticker, but it doesn't work in real life, as people make mistakes and absolute power does tend to corrupt absolutely (and giving yourself the power to decide life and death is the ultimate power). Killing in direct defense of yourself or others is one thing, something the law allows. Killing because it's more convenient undermines everything our system is based on. The system isn't perfect, far from it at times, but the alternative is bloody chaos with self-appointed executioners dealing out whatever they consider justice.

I've watched and enjoyed all the Death Wish movies, mind you, but realizing that it's macho fantasy and that Kersey really should eventually wind up in jail...