I'm not going to subscribe to MOTUC just for Castle Greyskullman. If I get him, I get him. If I don't, oh well. Life goes on. It's just toys.

That's great news really. I am at the point were the cost of action figures is simply getting too high. Add to that companies making it harder to get their products (ie poor distribution, forcing memberships on people, horrible line management) and something like this would is the final reason I would need to stop collecting a line.

I'll admit that MOTUC is one of the highest quality lines out there, but to force me into a subscription service where they want you to buy mostly in blind faith, have a horrible processing vendor, and only really offer less than 50% of the things I want based on past history...well Scott I think you know what you can do with your subscription service and scare tactics.

And anyone who says "sell the stuff you don't want on ebay" doesn't use ebay to sell very often. On top of paying a premium for a fair amount of figures I don't want, I have to incur additional expenses selling on ebay and using paypal. That's a lot of work and money for a line run by a company's project team that appears to have little to no business or marketing experience and resorts to using threats and scare tactics.

Scott...cancel the line and do us all a favor. Seriously.

I was already out on the DC sub; there's just nothing there I want from the figures announced and I'm not going to subscribe in the hopes the second half of the year features something I want.

I have to admit, though, I might have to re-up on MOTUC now, despite the fact it looks like I'm going to keep exactly one figure from my 2012 subscription, because I really want Ram Man. Selling MOTUC on ebay does yield a bit of profit (except Shadow Weaver, who sold for a daft amount), even taking all the fees into account, so I don't really mind doing it, but to subscribe knowing I only want one figure of those announced, and possibly for the entire year, doesn't sit well. I'm undecided, I could just pay a premium to someone for Ram Man, or hope he's one of the few with a handful available on day of sale, though I think we know how that's likely to go given Matty's history.

Interestingly, Scott mentioned Ram Man specifically as one of the figures you should subscribe to get. I think he knows that's one of the few cards he has left to play to keep the line going, so I wouldn't actually expect there to be any available for the plebs who don't subscribe.

Can't imagine these lines lasting much longer.

-JJJ

I wouldn't take "Castlegreyskull Man" if he came dipped in gold, but that's just one man's opinion. I think the entire 30th Anniversary sub-line has been a farcical insult to the work of the original creators, but that's coming from a strict Miniternian so, again, YMMV and all of that.

-JJJ

Castlegrayskull Man is coming this year as part of the 30th anniversary line. It's not part of the 2013 subscription.

All of this news seems to contradict Toyguru's earlier statements that even at their lowest sales in 2012, MOTUC subscription rates are well above what they deem to be the minimum required and significantly better than the other MattyCollector subscriptions. Either the 2013 subscriptions have really plummeted or they're trying to scare up some extra MOTUC sales while drumming up support for the other lines.

Well, I see it as KIND of a drag, as the only figures I'm even remotely interested in were the Metal Men (assuming this announcement that I haven't read covers ALL subscriptions and not just MOTU)

100% agreement on the 30th anniversary garbage. With the exception of the 4H's submission, they are all VERY lame. That was 6 spots that would have been killer if they just said "as a celebration of the 30th anniversary we're letting the 4H make 6 new, original figures for the line."

It does.

-JJJ

Platinum, Tin and Lead are not part of the 2013 subscription. They're going on sale this December. I apologize if I'm starting to come off as the nerd police, I'm just trying to help out.

As a follow-up to my last post, Toyguru is saying that MOTUC 2013 subscription sales are below their minimum requirement so far, which I guess means there's been a pretty big drop off for the line.

They are club figures for 2012, lead is a over sized figure

Mattel has more disrespect for it's fans than any other company. Want to threaten me into subscribing? FORGET IT!

I'm not here to be a re-seller for their annoying business model. Too many toadies that kiss up to them and tolerate their poor business practices and horrible customer service.

Watchmen? Don't need them. MOTU? Don't need them. ANYTHING they sell by sub? Don't need them, they're just toys. I can just pay the markup for the scant few I actually do want, and save overall. Any company that deals through Digital River doesn't get my money.

Wow, I expected a big drop-off given the ridiculous shenanigans at Mattycollector this year, but I didn't think it would be that bad. It looks like Digital River's complete and utter incompetence is catching up with even the MOTU line, as many have been warning for years. You can't keep running a site like two kids in their parent's basement and expect that things are going to keep going well.

I think we'll see an extension on the subs, due to the same "popular demand" cited for keeping them to three weeks.

In the end, though, I don't expect to see he line go much past next year as long as DR is still in charge of showing just how inept a website can possible be every month...

Not sure why there's so much negativity around Matty. The subs have been great and made collecting easy. I hate being at the mercy of retailers whose ordering patterns have nothing to do with what collectors want. Just look at the low orders on Marvel Legends. I love not having to go through long droughts of new toys throughout the year just because retailers only want to order when a big movie's out or at Christmastime. The 30th MOTUC figures were a separate subscription so no one had to get them. I think the Fearless Photog is one of the coolest releases Mattel's ever done and a great acknowledgement of action figure history and trivia, just like Hasbro's Rocket-Firing Fett mail-away.

Plus Mattel gets great credit for extending both the JLU line and Young Justice 6" through Matty. Ans the comic book Watchmen line is a LONG-AWAITED release that is just great to finally see. Again it's a company that found a way to make toys collectors want and bypass the BS of the retailers that gets in the way.

Action figures have a long history of rewarding people who support an entire line and don't just pick and choose. Various build-a-figure and mail-away promotions have been rewards for loyalty in the past. So I don't see a problem with incentivizing people to support the entire line through the subscriptions. It is true that if the majority of fans of the line only want a couple of figures a year, no line is going to be able to survive.

The biggest change I remember hearing is that subscribers now get first crack at ordering non-subscriber items. I don't think it's a perk I really needed since I haven't had trouble getting anything off Matty in a very long time. I know last year they warned day-of-sale items would be very limited in production this year too, but it doesn't appear they've sold out that fast this year as far as I know. And eBay prices on Matty stuff don't seem that bad.

The only gripe I have is that Matty doesn't let subscribers combine other monthly sale items into their subscription order to save on shipping. But whatever they do wrong is far outweighed by what they're doing right.

I don't think it's just Digital River where MOTUC is concerned. I think Scott and company have waited too long to get to characters people wanted from the start and a lot of collectors have given up.

I subscribed to MOTUC last year and almost immediately regretted it when I saw what characters were coming. Soon after that, I realized the only MOTU I truly like is the Miniternia era, so that put me in the position of selling every subscription figure through as the subscription will touch on Miniternia exactly once this year. That being the case, I can tell you a lot of these figures are not in demand on the secondary market anymore. Stuff like the Star Sisters, Snake Man-At-Arms, Thunder Punch He-Man, Sludge Head, the griffin, even Horde Prime; people don't really care. I was lucky to get my money back on most of that stuff.

Some of the 30th Anniversary stuff sells for even less. A quick eBay search reveals Fearless Photogs and Mighty Spectors that have sold for less than Matty price.

I'm sure some of the secondary market demand has eroded with more people subscribing, but there are a LOT of new figures out there on ebay each month and they're just not going for what they used to. Conversely, try to get Teela, Tri Klops, or even King Randor for what the newer figures are going for. Doesn't happen.

With Ram Man, Rattlor, Dragon Blaster Skeletor, Mosquitor, and Jitsu announced, and Mekaneck sort of announced, that leaves...

Blade
Blast-Attack
Clamp Champ
Dragstor
Extendar
Flying Fists He-Man
Gwildor
Horde Trooper
Laser Light He-Man
Laser Light Skeletor
Mantenna
Ninjor
Rio Blast
Rokkon
Saurod
Snake Face (whose shield was shown at SDCC, I believe)
SSSqueeze
Stonedar
Terror Claws Skeletor
Tung Lashor
and
Two Bad

...unmade from the original MOTU line alone, and that doesn't take specialized figures like Modulok, Multi-Bot, and the rotor guys into account. Now, granted, I could care less about any of the above characters apart from Ram Man, but I know I'm in the vast minority. I think there are plenty of collectors out there who have had it slogging through Star Sisters and contest winners to get to the stuff they really want.

Barring any more Miniternia bonuses like Procrutus (for whom I am grateful, make no mistake) I'm done after Ram Man because I have little faith Miniternia Trap Jaw will win the subscriber poll.

Good luck to everyone else getting the rest of the vintage line, let alone anything else you might want, before MOTUC asphyxiates on Spectors and Greyskullmen.

-JJJ

That combined shipping thing is still a head scratcher to me... they have our order history, and now they're going to let subscribers buy stuff early, so I don't see any reason why they can't combine shipping.

I know they said they would waste time and resources doing single preorder figures, but that makes me wonder how Bandai Japan does their tamashii nations stuff, where they put exclusives, with extensive retooling or original designs, up for preorder a few months early, announce a closing date for the preorders then ship them all out. Are they just that much more efficient, or is it because of some other reasons? I know that they're expensive, but I'd much rather pay a bit more for something I knew I wanted instead of getting a sub and hoping for maybe 50% of the sub being stuff I really want, and the other 50% being stuff I'm indifferent about.

Mattel's Hot Wheels site also does some pre-orders many months in advance for specific single releases. Matty is clearly trying to get more bucks out of the line by getting people to sign up to a larger line and not be so picky-choosy. I don't blame them for it. I think that's a logical thing to do and it's good for completists who want to see the line continue. If it fails I highly doubt they'd cancel the line outright. They probably would roll it back to a smaller line with the characters they know are more in-demand. But it's worth a try to go big if they can find the support for it.

The MOTUC 30th line has no impact whatsoever on the MOTUC main line, no more than the Watchmen line will have on the MOTUC main line next year. It is a completely separate subscription of 6 figures made above and beyond what was already scheduled for the MOTUC line. Those figures aren't stopping any other MOTUC figures from getting made.

Doesn't matter how it's partitioned, it's money and time that could have been spent on other things. It's also more closely associated with the main MOTUC line than Watchmen is with the DC line, that's why 30th Anniversary was a sub-division of the overall MOTUC line and not its own line, as Watchmen is.

Conceptually, you could easily do the Watchmen line without an overarching DC line. If all there was for MOTU was the 30th Anniversary figures, people would want to know where He-Man and Skeletor are. The 30th MOTU line is dependent on the overall MOTUC line, not so with Watchmen. It's not a parallel comparison.

I think, if you can demonstrate fans want Sir Laser Lot or The Mighty Spector more than Two Bad or a Horde Trooper, you can say the 30th Anniversary sub-line was worthwhile. As it stands now, I don't think you'll find anyone who wouldn't gladly trade any of the 30th figures in for either of the two figures I mentioned, or most of the others I listed above.

And that's my point; sales clearly aren't what they used to be. If MOTUC fizzles out and dies after the 2013 sub without, I'd say, most of the figures I mentioned above being made, I think you're going to have a lot of scrutiny on all the contests, NA, POP, concept, and wholly invented characters that made it into the line.

I'm not saying these figures have no place in the line, but I think, at this point, they've gotten a disproportionate number of the spots.

-JJJ

if motuc ends this year, it's 100% matty's fault.

forcing the ever-growing cherry-picking segment of collectors into an all-in or all-out position is complete and utter idiocy. it's one of the dumbest moves i could imagine a company doing.

i've picked up a sub for the past 2 years and, regardless of what matty says or does, i will absolutely NOT pick up a sub in 2013. i'm tired of taking crap characters i have less than zero interest in just so i can be guaranteed to get the ones i DO want.

i'm tired of crap characters like snake man-at-arms, bedroom outfit king randor, the star sisters, and dekker. next year seems to be full of crap i don't want, too. king he-man? are you kidding?! fangman? fighting foe whatever-the-hell? give me a break with this crap.

the only figures announced for next year i do want are ram man and jitsu. i want less that half of what's been announced for the 1st 3 months of next year. and matty's telling me "tough s#it, you've gotta buy crap you don't want"? it's utter lunacy.

forget it. i'm done with motuc. i'll hit ebay for the figures i actually want. and i'll GLADLY pay more for the ones i want if it means i don't have to pay for the ones i don't want.

and that's not even getting into the qc issues and dealing with the ever-worsening digital river.

it's really like mattel is trying to run themselves out of business.

Per a post by Catra's Wrath on the Matty boards today, 2013 MOTUC subscriptions are "very low." So low, apparently, Toy Guru is working on putting a thermometer on it. There's definitely alarm for the line because Scott said elsewhere on the boards they usually hit the MOTUC sub goal on the first day of sale.

Whuh oh...

Speaking of thermometers, if the DC sub one is at all accurate, you can kiss that good-bye. Scott says if the sub doesn't go through, that's probably it for 6" DC figures at Matty because fans "are either in or they're not."

Back to MOTUC, Scott attributes the low 2013 sub sales to the price increase. I don't think that's it. Certainly that's not the only factor.

-JJJ

I still havent pulled the trigger myself on the MOTUC sub even though I have had it for 2 years, probably will but the $70 figure/multipack bothers me. Blind buying is horrible. Thats why the DC sub isnt doing so well out of the ones they showed for spring I want ONE. They need to reveal the entire line ahead of time, they have the figures done Toy Guru even said they were already looking into 2014 as they already have 2013 planned. Hell the figures are done, according to Toy Guru Phantom Stanger has been done for 2 years with because they couldnt find a spot for him. There is NO excuse why we are getting another Flash (watch video of the Matty panel, there is NO clapping for the figure when they show it) when we bought 3 different colored ones already this year and last (blue white and yea Zoom but still)

I can see He-man staying but im pretty sure DC is going to be dead.

On the Matty boards today, TG said they can't and won't reveal any more of the 2013 DC sub line-up because they don't have sculpt approvals, license approval, etc.

Think of that what you will.

-JJJ

Honestly, Castle Greyskullman does not fit in the MOTU mythos for me. I think his appeal, for me, is his kitsch factor. He's silly & I, for whatever reason, really dig it. I wouldn't dare display him w/the handful of MOTUC I own, but he would be great fun sitting here on my desk.

Should you end up w/one & are looking to unload it, please keep me in mind.

I never bought into the MOTUC subs because I didn't want figures like the Star Sisters. I wanted the core group of Masters & Skeletor's forces. Had the club knocked out those main figures I would have been on board from the beginning. After finishing the main cast, anything that was released beyond that is gravy. Save the obscure characters for the end. The die hards will eat those up & the rest of us have a pretty complete group INCLUDING Two-Bad.

I guess I'm one of the people Scott is complaining about because I cherry picked the line hardcore. I only own 13 of however many have been made & I would have bought Stinkor too had he not sold out before I made it home. Fortunately for me, Mattel effed up his forearms so I saved myself $30. Why would I subscribe to a club that cannot even assemble their COLLECTOR GRADE toys correctly? They don't deserve my unblind faith when I don't want 2/3 of the figures in the first place AND there are QC issues involved. With the DC sub, I've loved everything we received so far (except Rocket Red) & I've had ZERO QC issues.

The only figure the line has left to offer me is Two-Bad & the line will probably die before he's made. And it's all due to figures like the Mighty Spector. A figure noboby clammored for.

Jedi Jones- Let’s look at the last couple years at this site that does so much right, keeping it to the major things, reported by numerous subbers across the net:
November 2011 – People with multiple subs find one Swifty and one Snouty in their shipments rather than one for each sub they paid for (and they are charged for the figures they didn’t get). The usual dance begins for those people of having to call and contact Matty multiple times to get it straightened out (which is always the case. I think I’ve heard one or two cases in the past 2-3 years where one call actually solved the problem, and I’m honestly hard pressed to back that up with a specific case I recall in detail).

December 2011 – The delays start which plague the line for the rest of the next year (belying the recent claim that the delays were due to extending the enrollment for the 2012 subs). Some wait MONTHS before seeing Demo Man or BG Lynn, again after spending time they will never get back fighting with Matty.

January 2012 – for the second year in a row, DR charges the wrong credit card for the second charge of the year (because DR couldn’t change a $20 charge to a $60 charge for the Star sisters pack moved to January, and had to make two charges to total $60, which added to the problems by triggering a red flag with some banks for credit card fraud, causing them to deny the charge), once again causing a rash of sub cancellations. TG claims it was because the fans didn’t have sufficient funds on their cards in these cases; a half truth, because the cards used likely didn’t have said funds since they WERE NOT THE DEFAULT CARDS DR should have charged. Many fans wound up missing Fisto. Soreceress, and /or the sub exclusive because by the time they were able to get a hold of someone at DR competent enough to fix the problem, they were out of stock and could offer only a refund. Adding to this wonderful debacle, many Fisto boxes actually contained a Sorceress. By the time those were actually received and folks could get past the first levels of DR idiocy, an actual Fisto in a Fisto box was sold out. I had the same thing happen to me, getting a Fisto box without a Fisto; the only reason I actually wound up with a Fisto on exchanging it was I got it from Big Bad Toy Store, rather than Matty (where I called that night, was called back the next morning a half hour after they opened, and had a Fisto reserved for me and return postage to send back the Sorceress within an hour after that).

After this: Matty touts a new page where sub holders can manage their own subs (as DR had proven unable to do), where you could check and change relevant things like cards and addresses as you can on most other websites. It lasts for a couple days before disappearing. First we’re told it’s something they can’t put back until Mattel legal approves it, then we’re told it won’t be back until they are sure it’s working. We’re still waiting.

In August of 2011, we were told specifically in writing on Matty’s own web pages that shipping for 2012 would be combined for all subs bought in the same transaction. Shipping would combine with the renewal of subs bought at different times, but subs bought together would ship together from the first month each was in turn available. 2012 came, and the subs started shipping together separately; I cannot recall a single case reported where the subs DID ship together as they were supposed to. The great papier mache head piped up and explained that Mattel made it very clear that the combined shipping would start ONLY after the first renewal, at which point several posters pointed the big head to the page still live on the Matty site explaining clearly and irrefutably that this is not what Matty guaranteed in writing when folks signed up for the subs. As far as I know, there are still problems with this, and, after a few months of it, Matty finally started refunding subscribers the difference rather than actually fixing the problem.

A few months ago, the much vaunted US based customer service team was finally put in place, and we discovered that, apparently, they are at the escalation (second) level of the CS chain at Matty, meaning we still get to deal with the usual incompetents at the first level before we can hopefully get to this new team. How effective the new team is compared to the old is still undecided, as far as I can tell. We’ll really see with the next big debacle whether things have improved because of this.

All this is the big stuff affecting numerous subbers. My own personal tale is even better. In November of 2011, my sub suddenly disappeared completely from Matty, my pass word to my account changed by itself, and I eventually found out that my account had gotten mixed up with at least one other person, possibly more. In the process, Matty charged me for nearly $700 worth of merchandise I had not bought. The credit card itself was not compromised, as no other bogus charges appeared other than Matty. The only other account that was compromised was the only one that had the exact same login and password as the Matty account, and that account was violated a week AFTER the problems with Matty . NO other account was affected; no bogus charges outside Matty were made. I tried for months to get Matty to cancel the subs, informing them multiple times that the card on Matty’s system had been cancelled and they couldn’t charge it anyway, and was given the usual line about subs can’t be cancelled. They actually sent me the Star Sisters packs from my two subs even though they couldn’t charge them. I tried multiple times to find out how to officially return the figures and be credited for doing so, and received first an e-mail verifying that the right department had gotten the message (so I had to repeat EXACTLY the same information again). The last e-mail I got told me how to re-instate my sub, which had nothing to do with answering my question.

These are matters of undeniable fact. The level of incompetence at Matty is unrivaled anywhere I have ever done business on the web. What they do wrong makes their site outright dangerous to use, and I will never give them access to another of my credit cards for obvious reasons (and Matty isn’t the first time DR has been involved in putting bogus charges on people’s credit cards; do some web research on Digital River. They’ve never been convicted of CC fraud themselves, but have been hip deep in several investigations where they represented and charged cards for companies that were). I would be an outright fool to chance ever doing business with them again, to be blunt.

That’s your site that does more right than it does wrong. I’m not going to argue further, as I’ve presented the facts to the best of my ability. I’ll let them speak for themselves (and anyone is free to troll the web and confirm all I’ve said. Even my own experience was well documented as it occurred on this site and others).

If you're only buying 13 figures in the MOTUC line so far then you're not the core consumer for the line. All you are is gravy on a line that has to be profitable without people who have a limited interest like you. If Matty only made the figures you wanted, then after the first 2 years they'd have a harder time marketing the line and getting people excited. Since you're not the main financial support for the line, you shouldn't complain when you have to wait longer to get the figures you want. No doubt you will get them eventually. If all else failed they'd announce the final year of the line and produce the rest of the most popular characters. Nothing wrong with having a limited interest in the line but expecting the line to cater to people like you who aren't the profit center is absurd.

The idea that a new MOTUC line should only be limited to remakes of the first couple years of figures in the '80s is silly. Creativity, imagination and the mythos shouldn't have to end at some arbitrary date in the past. MOTUC is doing more or less the same thing the non-movie G.I. Joe releases have done for the last few years. Joe is remaking core characters from the most popular years of the line but they're also producing trivia pieces done in foreign countries like the black ninja and pilot Scarlett, doing figures seen in the comics/cartoons but never made as toys like Zanya and Dr. Venom, and creating all-new characters like Bench Press, Shock Trooper and Shadow Tracker. The Joe fans seem to be eat all that stuff up, so I don't know why MOTUC fans would be any different.

I do agree that the price increase is probably slowing down subscriptions considerably. That is a BIG hike and very hard to swallow. Nothing would stop me from subscribing, but a 25% jump made me blink and I know if it made me blink, it's going to make a lot of other people walk. That is just financial reality. Collector toys are moving to a stage where we're seeing lower overall sales, less variety of releases and higher prices. Meanwhile mass market toys in order to be made cheaply are seeing major quality reductions and having less appeal to collectors. All of it for various reasons that no one who is impacted by the changes can control. People may be forced to walk from the hobby and that is unfortunate.

Deleted post.

-JJJ

I don't blame you for not wanting to deal with Matty if you had credit card fraud issues there. People certainly feel the same way about both Corner Store Comics and The G.I. Joe Club after their CC issues. But theirs appeared to be far more widespread than your Matty issue for whatever reason.

I of course had the issue with the subscriptions not combining and I had to get in touch with someone on the Matty forums earlier in the year because my Voltron sub didn't start up. And then now I'm waiting a week for Hasbro to ship my SDCC order despite multiple phone calls. Customer service isn't always the best with these online toy outlets. Heck, even one of my Amazon orders I had to call and "remind" them to ship last year's SDCC Gizmo to me because it just sat there for maybe a couple weeks not shipping. Nevertheless my most severe, troublesome issue was with Corner Store Comics and nothing else has been bad enough to make me second-guess whether I deal with a company or not.

The biggest issue in my mind is that Matty won't tell you what you are buying, and regardless of what TG says, we have all been told time and again (AND AGAIN) lines are planned out at least a year in advance. Matty knows the basic line up for 2013. I get changes happen, but I'd rather know the line up in advance and live with the "subject to change" clause. If it changes too much, well than you are not running your business well. Let's face it, MOTUC doesn't have any external pressure (movie, cartoon, comic tie-ins) to deal with, so they are calling the shots for the most part.

I believe Matty purposely holds back info because they know there are a good percentage of figures people don't want (and thus won't subscribe.) This is Matty's greed honestly because TG and Matty want the line to go on for 10 years...I believe he's been quoted saying something to that effect. Here's how it should have gone down...Matty should have stretched the core classics for 3 years and then repeated the formula for another 3 years with the 200X line. I would have bought all six years. So instead of never reaching year 10 on their current piss poor planned line with mediocre sales, they could have had a blazing 6 years of hot sales.

Finally, if ANYBODY should have the right to charge $25 a figure it would be Marvel Select. They don't have a "reuse bucks" format, every figure is typically a new mold/scuplt, the articulation is comparable if not better in some cases, and lets face it, if the world ever blows up, the only things left intact and floating in space will be Marvel Select figures...they're freakin paper weights. So comparing this to MOTUC, Matty is just greedy. Oh, and I'm fairly certain the Marvel license cost more than the MOTU license.

I wonder if other toy companies read the high jinx Matty performs almost weekly and laughs their butts off. Its got to be the favorite joke at places like Hasbro and Lego.

This is all pretty simple math, metaphorically speaking.

They blew out tons of A-listers in 2012, and thus collectors are all set to cherry-pick Ram-Man, Jitsu, and perhaps Mantenna and call it a day. The vast majority of subscribers I suspect have "hit lists" that are mostly complete at this point. I think the price hike didn't help, either. Nor did making the window to commit to these subs come right after lots of expensive con exclusives have been bought by toy fans (not just Mattel exclusives; one presumes most fans collect multiple toy lines). Sure, the initial cost is low, but there's the $500 sticker shock right after fans have potentially blown hundreds on other exclusive fare.

The plan now seems to be squeak 2013 through, then fortify 2014 with the final vintage characters & "main" POP/NA. I would suggest that 2015 be bi-monthly, non-sub, and that they vary the production run based on the popularity of the characters. NA guys just don't sell as well, or as fast. Run the minimum there. POP have more fans, so if there are any remaining run slightly more there. etc.

On a separate note, I'm a bit bummed that this likely means we may not see the likes of Stridor, Clawdeen or Mantisaur.

I dont mind a non in demand figure like say Demo-Man as long as we get figures like Ram man and Mekaneck. its hard to tell what figures people want and dont want. Just watch Pixle Dans video on the matty panel its said to listen to those people cheering when the figures are revealed especially Pixel Dan's over the top reaction to Mesquitor who honestly I would rather have had Mantana to finish the core Horde team but of coarse he will be down the line. And the response to King Randor?? He just took up a spot that 2-Bad could have had (note Toy Guru even said it was planned as a 200x Randor which I would have been much happier with as he doesnt remind me of the creepy BK King) The mini comic figures are the ones I could really care less for as well as the Filmation characters. I guess im in the group that wants all remakes of vintage figures but I do like the 30th as they ARE new characters fit into the mythos.

Toy lines are dying left and right, so it's not just a MOTUC phenomenon. DCU is dead with an uncertain "reboot" on the horizon. Star Wars hit a brick wall this year and looks like it's going to be severely cut back next year. Almost no movie-based toy line has spun off any lasting success past the initial year when stores HAVE to carry it, not Batman, Captain America, Iron Man, Thor, Wolverine. Doubtful Avengers will fare any better in the long run. Hasbro didn't even try for an X-Men: First Class line last year. Spider-Man was selling good with kids/families for a while, but it looks like the movie stuff was overproduced. Mattel had a big flop with Cars 2 and is still trickling out "new" product that was produced back in 2011.

I don't know what's going on with MU, but nothing new has hit store shelves all year save for a couple 2-packs. ML was a "surprise" success according to Hasbro even though Hasbro sold out of a pretty meagerly shipped quantity, which just underlines how low expectations are for an action figure line these days.

G.I. Joe has actually been hopping along pretty well as a true, properly handled, retail-distributed collector's line, but the movies keep cutting its legs out. I'm not sure what's worse, when the movie simply delays the line or when the ugly movie-based stuff actually has to be put on the shelves. I guess Transformers is doing alright, but I don't follow it closely.

Only WWE is performing really well at retail, about as well as all the other major action figure lines used to in their heydays. I don't know what it means that the hottest SDCC toys this year are Jem, My Little Pony and Monster High, but it seems like a major shift. Are collectors growing up, getting married and buying more stuff for their wives/daughters instead?

At the same time these lines seem to be performing poorly at retail, eBay prices of many recent toys from the past couple years are skyrocketing. So there is still a customer base out there. Maybe only the hardcore big-spenders are sticking around, as they compete for a decreasing supply of product, while the retail price hikes among other factors are turning more and more of the other collectors away.

The plot thickens...

http://(bleep)/news.php?catid=241&itemid=18961

Scott also said on the Matty board if the MOTUC sub threshold isn't achieved, it's likely management will cancel the line entirely rather than release the figures announced at SDCC individually. That would seem to contradict what he says in the link above. Also, he said Ram Man would almost certainly be out of the question if they don't meet the sub threshold because he requires too much tooling.

If he's supposed to be released in February, shouldn't the tools exists already...? Lots of conflicting information tonight.

Anyway, I was shocked Ram Man wasn't the sub exclusive. I think that would have driven sub sales at least a bit more than what they've been to this point. I can't imagine King He-Man is much of an incentive, at all. I wonder how much Scott regrets that decision.

I think El Honez was pretty close to dead-on above about why the subs have fallen off. It's not just the price increase, it's the character selection and the dwindling number of musts.

Scott is really spinning his wheels, it seems. Just today, he's promised to end the line to everyone's satisfaction in 2014 instead of 2016 and now he's suggesting a $35 Jitsu if we don't subscribe. Then I read other statements on the Matty board in which he says the entire line is over if they don't get enough 2013 subs. It all comes over a bit desperate and I don't think he realizes how much, and how severely, he tends to hurt his own causes with fans.

If this is the state of MOTUC, I think we can safely assume the DC sub is dead and I can't imagine the Watchmen sub is doing any better.

I don't mean this as a joke or snark in any way, but I've wondered this past week if Scott's job might be jeopardized if the Matty model collapses.

-JJJ

I think its a scare tactic to get last min sales on the sub for people who are on the fence still (I have to wait till next payday myself to sign up) but now I dont want to sign up and then bam be charged an extra 10 bucks per figure when the shipping is already killing us, that high it will be over 40 bucks a transaction for ONE figure alone WTF Matty!!?!!??! I can only imagin now how much Ram-Man will cost and the Fighting Foe Men 3 pack.....

I believe strongly the DC sub will NOT make it, horrible character choices already announced with a fan favorite thrown in to lure people and a so so club exclusive. Again Blind buying sucks, their approval bs is just that BS. My buddy has this years sub and is furious that he is forced to get Uncle Sam and Star Man, he just didnt want to mess with instant sell out Poison Ivy, Elasta Girl and the rest of the Metal Men which I will have to struggle with. The Watchmen sub is also going to fail its too small of a fan base and a universe.

But I agree toy lines ARE dying, there really is no such thing as a home grown line anymore, everything is mostly a crappy 2 wave movie line or a one wave based on a cartoon with a crappy selection of figures. True there Marvel Legends and Universe but horrible Hasbro distributions hurt them. DC is done Turtles? I cant see it lasting more than 3 waves honestly. Aisles are filled with Beyblade crap Bakugauhn because thats what kids want the era of action figures IS dying. Thats why alot of collectors I know are moving towards the high end stuff like Hot Toys and Sideshow and honestly thats where the future is heading!

If I was the project manager on this line (aka Toy Guru) I'd take all this negative feedback to the executive with the final say and insist on two things:

1. We need to change up the character selection immediately to at least 75% core characters this year and...

2. We need to drop the list on the public ASAP

However, as it stands now, Mattel and Toy Guru are asking all the real concessions to be made by the fans.

Two good examples that I've seen mentioned that blow Mattel's propaganda out of the water are NECA and Marvel Select.

I think when we talk about the core consumers of the line and that cherry pickers are the gravy, we're getting into dangerous territory. If we consider the fans that are super excited over every single figure to be the core consumer, and if we think that the line is only meant to sell to the core consumer, well then this line is dead. Like others have said, the line seemingly counts on the cherry pickers to subscribe and get figures that they absolutely do not want or are on the fence about. So basically the only way for the line to survive is to force people to buy stuff they don't want so they can get the stuff they do want. To me, that seems to indicate that demand is not there for the more obscure stuff, so maybe they should raise the prices on those in order for them to get made, or not pad the line with them.

Does any other toyline do it this way? I know the build a figure stuff does this to an extent, but it still isn't forced. Why wouldn't they produce a ton of the more highly demanded figures, like Ram man, so there's ample supply on day of sale? Do they have to produce all figures in equal numbers, or are they trying to threaten people into subscribing?

Since Ram Man was shown at SDCC and is already on the 2013 schedule for February, I find it hard to believe he isn't tooled, so the idea the only way he could possibly be made is to hit a subscription target doesn't ring true, to me.

UPDATE: Catra's Wrath said this today on the Matty boards RE: the possibility of Ram Man if the sub fails.

Toy Guru commented on this recently. Due to the high cost of a 100% tooled figure like Ram Man, his production will rely on the sub getting the greenlight for the whole year. If 2012 doesn't get greenlit it's extremely unlikely that there would be enough in the budget to cover the cost of Ram Man's production.

How can that be when he's already scheduled for February? Is it possible Mattel is showing untooled prototypes as scheduled subscription figures? If so, seems very fly by night, to me.

Am I wrong?

-JJJ

thank god you're not running motuc, then.

this would have been the ultimate F U to the ever-growing cherry-picking community. cherry pickers want the core characters, not all the extra crap. ram man is a prime example of that. if they had forced non-subbers into having to get the sub just to get ram man, the internet would have actually exploded.

Note that he didn't say that's what he would do if he was running it, but he was surprised Matty didn't do it that way.

Thank you.

-JJJ

He is *effectively* a sub exclusive, though. Not enough people subscribe, he doesn't get made. Any extra stock there is - subscribers get early access to buy those all up as extras before cherry-pickers get a chance. Not enough subscriptions get sold for it to be a go, and he doesn't get made at all.

Now Matty is trying to bait people in by saying the early access will include SDCC items as well. I do find it funny because the He-Man exclusive this year was really lack luster and as of eariler today still hadnt sold out but it also includes other items too. Funny because Mattel's exclusives have been much easier to obtain than Hasbros, this years and last. When I ordered my Zuul/Dana everything still was available and I dont even care about Polly Pocket or Monster High.

I just think its funny that after seeing TG at SDCC how excited and energetic he was over the He-man line is now doing a complete opposite by saying these figures now MAY NOT happen....

Apologies if I am reading your post wrong, but anything that falls under a sub will not be available for early access. Only non-subscription items will be available.

Exactly SDCC stuff isnt part of the subscription. Didnt say anything about early access to sub items.

Nice, so to have a chance for my daughter's Monster High doll next year, I'd have to buy a subscription for something I only want 1 figure out of (Wally West Flash) that is totally unrelated besides being made by the same company. Guess I'll just be dealing with eBay next year for that, or maybe she'll grow out of it by then!

What gets me about this is, given Matty's history, we know there's no apparatus in place whatsoever to make this happen smoothly. It's just another in a series of increasingly desperate slaps at getting everyone to subscribe. Just throw some other bone out there and worry about the logistics, which always end up being excruciating, later.

Wonder what they'll throw against the wall today...

-JJJ

What KILLS me is Mattel just refuses to take the necessary action to get the sub threshold:

1. Revamp the 2013 selection to at least 75% core characters and

2. Publish the list on the internet ASAP

The line is dying according to TG, so NOW is the time to play all the face cards. Of course, since this is the sensible thing to do and Mattel won't do it, it seriously calls into question whether or not TG is telling the full truth.

Here's my main question though. If 2012 saw the MOTUC sub quickly obtain the threshold needed last year and thus set a new bar to achieve (most likely,) is Mattel holding the 2013 sub threshold to what the 2012 threshold overachieved? In the world's "new model" business climate where a company CONSTANTLY insists on breaking new records quarter after quarter, or in this case year after year, I'd put my money down that fans are being held to the "new" 2012 threshold and not the typical threshold that was needed in the past to keep the line moving. Mattel can't cry cost as to why they need more memberships because they're charging more per figure. The business world as a whole simply can't except that record quarters/years are not substainable...well unless you control the entire market in every way like the oil companies. Mattel can't even control Digital River.

It doesn't take an executive (usually grossly out of touch anyway) to understand the MOTUC market. You had a record year for MOTUC subs in 2012. Now you are having a "record low" sign up in 2013. YOU DID SOMETHING VERY WRONG IN 2012.

I have to admit, I take a small amount of pleasure seeing MOTUC and the other subs die when the company who runs them won't adapt to the business climate but continues to insist on record participation (increased revenue) from fans. I believe TG does love the line, but clearly someone with no connection, identification, love or respect for the line is making the decision here.

Spoke to Soon
https://www.facebook.com/FourHorsemenToyDesign/posts/396864873710617

Now it looks like Matty is getting the Four Horsemen to beg us to sign up.....So sad Matty just announce the ENTIRE lineup at once and your sales will increase. People wanna know what they are buying and are tired of being forced to buy things like the Griffin and Shadow Beasts

My biggest lament in this is all the slapdash scrambling and cajoling, if successful, will lead to more of the exact same. I haven't gotten the sense from anyone at Mattel they understand what the real problems are. All they've acknowledged as a cause for the subscription freefall is the price increase and I think it's pretty obvious, at this point, that's only one factor of several.

I've seen people on other sites say specifically they're tired of all the filler characters and an inability to avoid them. It seemed like Toy Guru was aware of this a few days ago when he said he'd restructure the line to end in 2014 with all major characters made, but that was negated almost immediately when the message morphed back to the usual Buy This Or Else.

In their statement, the Horsemen make a point of saying they're not going to engage in speculation about why subscriptions have fallen off so dramatically (still just over 50% of the target as of this afternoon), so I think they, at least, are aware of the situation beyond the price increase.

I have one dog in this hunt, Ram Man. The more I think about it, the more sense it makes Mattel basically has to find away to release him regardless of what happens with the sub. If the sub fails and Matty throws his hands over his paper mache head and says, "Oh well," there are going to be a lot of pissed off people who have already demonstrated they're pretty tired of being held up. Releasing Ram Man and Jitsu, at least, would go a long way to heal those wounds. People are already saying they're willing to pay a premium for Ram Man if it means getting him individually. I tend to believe them.

Or, Matty can admit they showed Ram Man before he was tooled and sat back assuming people would flock back to the line and pay even more for all the assembly mistakes, crappy characters, hopeless customer service, and Digital River incompetence. Watching the reaction to that would be schadenfreude nirvana.

That won't happen though. I think we know if the sub fails, it's your fault.

Ghostbusters and DC are already dead. Back to the Future never started. If MOTUC goes away entirely, I would think that would be the end of MattyCollector, period. More and more, it seems like guaranteeing Ram Man in some form or fashion is the key to this whole thing.

-JJJ

Don't say DC is dead...

How do non-diehard-toyfans find out about this stuff, anyway? Do they advertise the DC subs in comic books? Or do they advertise the MOTUC in the He-man comics? Magazines? If you need bigger and bigger numbers, and you're going to give a short window to subscribe, you'd think you'd need to get the word out there early, but if I were just a casual fan collecting DCUC at retail, I'm not sure I'd know that the line has pretty much ended at retail and the only way to get new figures is to go to mattycollector and hope enough people subscribe...

Ash, you can't and won't be charged more than is currently stated on the sub after you sign up. If Matty has to reprice the items they will at the very least give everyone a chance to opt out.

I don't think Toy Guru's job is going to be in any trouble. What the subscription does is help Mattel predict what the demand is going to be for the line next year. Lowering demand for a toy line certainly tells the producers that they will have to cut back the number of releases and focus only on the most popular characters. Since Mattel can find out if they're in that position in advance, they can avoid actually overproducing figures and being stuck with unsold stock. That's a plus for TG's job security.

Announcing all core characters for 2013 is not a way to make the subscription succeed, it's a way to admit the toy line has failed. Because that will obviously mean there won't be a 2014 for the line. They don't need a subscription if they're going to do that because they can already predict how those characters will sell. The only way MOTUC succeeds is if it can continue producing a wide range of characters. It's easy for any toy line to just produce the top 10 most wanted characters, but if nothing below that is selling well enough, then the line can't keep going.

I would be very disappointed to see the MOTUC line have a final "hurrah" at this point. This is a really fun toy line that has the hugest opportunity to introduce the most imaginative new characters as high quality action figures since the original TMNT line, alongside remakes of the classics. My imagination didn't die in the '80s. I still want to see new characters that never existed before. I'm tired of seeing other lines remake the same characters over again but "now with ankle joints!" When so many toy lines are dominated by constant variations, resculpts, and new costumes for their "main heroes," MOTUC is one line where you can see something new and unexpected each month.

Personally, I'm seeing the persistent economic downturn in this country hurting young men a lot, especially men who are trying to start a family. The average age group of action figure collectors could be right around that turning point. Many people have delayed starting families but almost no one wants to delay it past age 40, which the children of the '80s are approaching rapidly. I don't think people's enthusiasm for the MOTUC line has died down from last year, but I think their budgets are getting squeezed. They can't afford to be completists on the MOTUC line anymore, especially at the higher price. Hence they are not subscribing but are planning to stick around and become cherry pickers. If MOTUC can't scrape up enough subscribers to be viable, then it will be the latest victim of our bad economy.